Oh my Lord, What have I done.

Forums Register Login My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums

Chat Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ Ticket List Log Out

Oh my Lord, What have I done.

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Discussion Forums] >> Van Maintenance Forums >> Drivetrain/Transmission >> Oh my Lord, What have I done.

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 26/10/2010 21:45:52

paulmanta

Posts: 131
Score: 8
Joined: 17/10/2009
Status: offline

Now I am not normally someone who gets the fear about a job, hell, I have rebuilt almost the whole Van now, BUT, this Autobox is horrible.

There is so much that might be wrong, so much that could be wrong and so much to think about.

I have taken a few pics and once i get home I will pop them up, its all in bits now, most of the black sludge of death has been cleaned and I have a help topic up on the US version of this site regarding torque converters, stall speeds, good rebuild kit makes and other stuff.

I am in deep.

I can't stand the tension, I hope it lasts.

EDIT:

< Message edited by paulmanta -- 26/10/2010 22:18:55 >

Post #: 1

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 26/10/2010 23:20:05

hanljo3

Posts: 524
Score: -4
Joined: 23/7/2010
From: liverpool
Status: offline

holy shtttttttttttt
call for andyfanshwe

(in reply to paulmanta)

Post #: 2

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 26/10/2010 23:36:20

paulmanta

Posts: 131
Score: 8
Joined: 17/10/2009
Status: offline

Yeah, its a bit mad looking in there isn't it ?

its only nuts and bolts though and my initial shock at the amount of complicated stuff has died down now its been in bits a while.

The valve block was tonights mission, its all stripped and clean now. just need to get specs to make sure its not worn anywhere.

Ordered a full rebuild manual from a company in california, hopefully they will ship it to me fast so I can get busy with the clutch packs at the weekend and see what I need in there.

(in reply to hanljo3)

Post #: 3

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 27/10/2010 2:29:27

andyp

Posts: 1159
Score: 53
Joined: 16/9/2008
From: Birdham West Sussex
Status: offline

I'm doing one too Paul and being something new can give you the sterks first time you look in there.

.

However as you say once you've worked out how it all works it's just another spanner job. You'll need to fabricate a couple of spring compressors but apart from the seal fitting and sizing tool for the stator and turbine shafts I can't see anything is needed in the way of special tools.

Keep posting - any tips and wheezes gratefully received

Andy

(in reply to paulmanta)

Post #: 4

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 27/10/2010 9:46:30

paulmanta

Posts: 131
Score: 8
Joined: 17/10/2009
Status: offline

I may well end up buying the shaft seal tool. the presses I can make.

I might make the bush drifts too.

(in reply to andyp)

Post #: 5

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 27/10/2010 10:08:54

bigal

Posts: 535
Score: 38
Joined: 17/1/2009
From: tipton
Status: offline

iv rebuilt most cars but i wouldnt go into a auto box

_____________________________

if it ay bostid dow fix it

(in reply to paulmanta)

Post #: 6

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 27/10/2010 11:57:22

andyp

Posts: 1159
Score: 53
Joined: 16/9/2008
From: Birdham West Sussex
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulmanta

I may well end up buying the shaft seal tool. the presses I can make.

I might make the bush drifts too.

That's about where I am unless I can get my hands on a seal tool to copy

(in reply to paulmanta)

Post #: 7

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 27/10/2010 18:15:24

paulmanta

Posts: 131
Score: 8
Joined: 17/10/2009
Status: offline

Well well well, lesson learnt today is that heat kills autoboxes.

I knew the Astro auto box had the potential to be feeble if abused. I knew the innard can cause trouble if you tow heavy trailers and that some components were upgraded around 96/7 due to problems but heat is the big killer.

The clutch packs were my target today and I had already done a quick visual on them but I stripped them right down and cleaned them off to see the extent of the wear.

What I found was horrible. the clutch packs for the lower gears were worn right out, warped and burnt. a couple of the "steels" (the steel sandwich plates between the friction plates) were scored and worse still had black depisits burnt on them.

The friction plates have little wear grooves to indicate how much life is left in them, in my case the grooves were gone and the remains of the friction coating was in flake form in the shell casings.

Have a few pics to illustrate the point. Once I decide on the spec for the rebuild i will post pics of the new stuff next to the old stuff so ypu will all get a better idea of how this all should look.

The moral of the story is that I will be fitting the Trans cooler I was supplied by Darren BEFORE I even put this autobox back in the van. I am not having this sort of death occur on my watch again ! I am also installing the temp sender units into the new large capacity sump so I can see what this is up to in future.

< Message edited by paulmanta -- 27/10/2010 18:31:15 >

(in reply to andyp)

Post #: 8

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 27/10/2010 18:29:53

andyp

Posts: 1159
Score: 53
Joined: 16/9/2008
From: Birdham West Sussex
Status: offline

Paul

Was there much hint of the amount of wear from the tranmission fluid or diid that not look too bad?

Andy

(in reply to paulmanta)

Post #: 9

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 27/10/2010 18:56:39

paulmanta

Posts: 131
Score: 8
Joined: 17/10/2009
Status: offline

Typically when i bought the van I dipped the oil and sniffed it and thought it was fine, I knew it needed changing as it was not bright red but It was a second hand van and so I expected to have to some stuff to it.

Once I got it all the way home (320miles) it started to do odd things, it lost 3rd and 4th for a bit but then was ok.

I was advised to not change the trans oil until I had time to rebuild the box as it often kills the box completely if the box is badly worn but mostly working.

The oil in the dipstick was looking old, the oil in the trans pan was horrible sludge.

Just goes to show you never really know about some things until its too late and it is wanting a LOT of money thrown at it.

(in reply to andyp)

Post #: 10

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 27/10/2010 19:38:22

bigal

Posts: 535
Score: 38
Joined: 17/1/2009
From: tipton
Status: offline

paul the clutch set up reminds me of a motorbike clutch

_____________________________

if it ay bostid dow fix it

(in reply to paulmanta)

Post #: 11

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 27/10/2010 19:54:30

paulmanta

Posts: 131
Score: 8
Joined: 17/10/2009
Status: offline

Exactly what I thought Al, there are 3 of these bloody multiplate clutch packs and each one is in a different section of the box and each is harder to get at than the last.

I will be keeping this topic live as i do it, hopefully it will provide a resource for other in future.

(in reply to bigal)

Post #: 12

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 27/10/2010 21:08:25

yankee doodle

Posts: 543
Score: 36
Joined: 7/3/2009
From: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Status: offline

There used to be an old lathe called a Kerry, which had an adjustable clutch very similar. Also my old Matchless 250, and my AJS 650 bikes both had similar clutches.

Best of luck Paul.

John

_____________________________

Old age is like everything else. To make a success of it,
you've got to start young.

(in reply to paulmanta)

Post #: 13

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 2/11/2010 13:33:27

Pheasant Plucker

Posts: 431
Score: 36
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline

Paul,
I have a copy of the 'Rebuild & Modify 4L60E Transmission' book.
Have sent you a PM.
George

_____________________________

Don't ask me to explain why I'm a vanner. Those who know don't need to. Those who don't won't understand.

Post #: 14

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 2/11/2010 19:58:04

Guest

Hi just seen your pictures of the box in bits!! just wondering if you can help me?? i have a 96 astro with a f**ked box can you point me in the right direction to 1, any one who can sort it out & 2 any one who maybe as one for sale many thanks TopTed

(in reply to paulmanta)

Post #: 15

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 2/11/2010 20:52:12

paulmanta

Posts: 131
Score: 8
Joined: 17/10/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: topted

Hi just seen your pictures of the box in bits!! just wondering if you can help me?? i have a 96 astro with a f**ked box can you point me in the right direction to 1, any one who can sort it out & 2 any one who maybe as one for sale many thanks TopTed

Its a problem where I am to be honest which is why I am doing it myself, I have no good rebuilders locally that itrust or that fit my budget.

What is wrong with your box ?

(in reply to Guest)

Post #: 16

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 23/11/2010 13:22:13

Guest

Thanks for the reply, been away so only just got to read your answer anyway the box is ok in reverse,put it in drive then it will change up into second but as it trys to change up into third it just revs its nutts off??? any help you can give please

(in reply to paulmanta)

Post #: 17

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 23/12/2010 19:25:06

paulmanta

Posts: 131
Score: 8
Joined: 17/10/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: topted

Thanks for the reply, been away so only just got to read your answer anyway the box is ok in reverse,put it in drive then it will change up into second but as it trys to change up into third it just revs its nutts off??? any help you can give please

Only just checked this topic again so sorry for the late reply.

Google "4L60E forum" and have a look there or follow this link:

http://www.700r4l60e.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2

This is a good place to start and then you have a better idea what you will be asking a rebuilder to do.

Mine is simple, its worn out ! yours may just be electronics or a valve block problem.

If I had my time again I would just bite the bullet and buy an exchange box from the states, expensive but if you go with a reputable builder you will save time and headaches.

I just spent £200 on special tools to remove and refit the big spring packs and the teflon seals. I still need some bush drifts and the actual parts to mend the box.

Its a big job and no mistakes can be made in it or its all ruined very quickly.

(in reply to Guest)

Post #: 18

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 19/1/2011 11:57:06

Pheasant Plucker

Posts: 431
Score: 36
Joined: 4/3/2008
Status: offline

Hi Paul, no need to get a box from the US,(worst case scenario) Check out my 'Fitting a Transmission Oil Cooler' thread, just below your 'Oh Lord' heading. The same company also do exchange rebuilt 4L60E boxes, around a Grand. (Gulp!!)
George

_____________________________

Don't ask me to explain why I'm a vanner. Those who know don't need to. Those who don't won't understand.

(in reply to paulmanta)

Post #: 19

RE: Oh my Lord, What have I done. - 29/10/2012 20:30:06

paulmanta

Posts: 131
Score: 8
Joined: 17/10/2009
Status: offline

I feel really bad for not updating this sooner !

After much faffng about and making lots of special tools I eventually managed to get the 4L60E back together, I ended up replacing all the bushings, seals, o-rings and the steels and frictions in the clutch packs. I also put a larger sump pan on with a drain plug, then popped a cooler on it for good measure. I uprated the internal oil pump to a 13 vane type to improve flow. Then I coupled it all up to a nice new torque converter as the old one was full of old burnt oil.

Total cost in parts was around £400, my time was free and I have a ramp as well so removal and re-fitting was free.

I have been driving the van around and so far it has been fine, racked up 500 or so miles of mixed driving, some long-ish runs and the daily trip to work and back.

I would tackle it again, I learnt a lot from it. So much so I am about to totally rebuild the TH350 out of my 67 Camaro and uprate that while i am at it.

(in reply to Pheasant Plucker)

Post #: 20